By A Practicing Homosexual
Let me start off by stating this: I cannot stand gay culture. I loathe, detest, abhor, vilify and am sickened by it.
I was in London this weekend, having a great time shopping and catching up with the legendary Tim O'Shea. We were walking through Soho and my blood just began to boil. Soho's totally cool I might add, my favourite place on the planet. But it just pissed me off to see so many raving gay guys acting out the worst parts of the gay stereotype, socialising with only other campy guys and fag hags, and chatting about sex, dick sizes, ABBA, Kylie or drag queens. It annoys me so much.
Let me be clear, I'm not annoyed by someone being themselves. Far from it. My problem is that "these people" seem to have their entire lives revolve only around their sexuality. They are gay. So that means they only go to gay clubs, only have gay friends, only read gay magazines, only buy camp music, only check out gay websites, only go to gay gyms etc. It's like someone going "I can only go to straight clubs and read/watch straight media and hang out with straigh people and listen to straight music etc." because they're straight. Bollocks.
The sex thing pisses me off probably more than anything. For DECADES gay men have been associated with being rampantly promiscuis when it comes to their sex lives. No long term relationships, no meaningful partnerships, just sex, sex, sex, and then tak about it non stop. "But I'm gay so I can get away with it." Why? Because it's expected of you? If it was a straight girl she'd be labelled a slut. But gay men? Oh they're just gay.
This wouldn't bother me that much apart from the fact that I then get tarred with the same brush. I was flicking through "Boyz" magazine on the way back from London, and in the starsign section under Sagitarrius it read "You've been a good gay man recently and have been having lots of sex..." What? WHAT? The fact that you fuck around loads makes you a good gay?! Another article was talking about a new sauna that has opened. Of course, it's gay only. Meaning that the movies they show are only gay pornos, and there are plenty of dark rooms so you can have random sex with random people you don't know. The writer of the article concluded "We spent a couple of good hours in there getting to know several of the cuter patrons much better!" I don't understand how you can turn yourself into such a parody of everything negative about your sexuality.
Clubs are no better. Cliquey, self absorbed bollocks prevades through most, frowning and scorning on any straight man that enters through the doors and doesn't like having his ass pinched, or openly contempting anyone who's not part of the usual group that goes there. Plenty of clubs also have their own dark rooms for - you guessed it - more sex with strangers.
I just cannot understand how people can allow themselves to have the fact that they fancy men dominate their lives. How, because they are gay, they shun every other kind of culture and interest themselves only in the gay one. I don't understand it, I can't understand it. I have few gay friends for a reason: because I can't stand to be around most gay people. They're introverted, introspective, arrogant, rude, catty and hard work. The other reason I don't have many gay friends is because I avoid the gay scene like the plague. I've been there, done it and can't stand it. Every negative stereotype about gay people is portrayed and magnified. But not through parody. For real. Out of choice.
Make no mistake, I loathe narrow minded straight people who find the sight of two men kissing or holding hands something to be openly mocked or jeered at. I hate the stereotypes that they think apply to all gay people. I hate being thought of as a "different" kind of gay person because I'm not a flaming fag. I fuck men, that's it. It has no bearing on the rest of my life at all, and I hate that just because I am gay people expect it to. And it's primarily down the people I describe above who continue to bolster such stereotypes, but then get offended when anyone other than gay people use them. If you're going to live the stereotype, expect people to use it. Otherwise, do what most other minorites have done, and move on to living in the 21st century, not a 1960s Kenneth Williams flick. Ducky.
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72 comments:
Thank You! I was beginning to think I am the only homosexual who can't stand being around other gay men.
Great work.
My opinion is that when you come out, you kind of get thrown in that culture when around those types of people. You indulge and get to know it because it's new, but it seems like that's more for teh' youngins. I think it's something you grow out of, and realize it might have been fun at the time, but probably should have taken it down a notch.
Hopefully, at least.
I guess I do agree that the culture is terrible, because it gives a bad name for all of us. Enjoying a gay bar every once in a while isn't necessarily a bad thing, but doing it in excess is. So I agree with you, and hope to God most of them grow out of it.
Hmmm fair point as a personal opinion from a 25 year old gay guy who doesn't like the commercial scene but as serious analysis does it stand up? Not really.
Let's take the rampant promiscuity thing - "for decades gay me have been associated..." has the ring of authority to it, until you realise that the author is only in their mid 20's and therefore this opinion certainly cannot have come from first hand experience, unless he had been hanging out around the gay scene from when he was a toddler. So it must have come from reading about this and hearing about it from others - quite what sources or other's he uses to form this opinion he doesn't tell us and therefore doesn't give the reader an opportunity to question those sources.
For example, is this really a phenomenon of gay culture or is it more about gay male culture? There is a big difference. And is this promiscuity a product of gay males or males in general? He doesn't tell us and doesn't allow his reader to form that judgement.
Returning to the "for decades" point, is he talking about those pre 1967 in the uk or afterwards - again he doesn't tell us. I doubt that gay men would have got that much chance to be associated with out and out promiscuity and gained the notoriety since they would have quicky been condemned by society legally punished, sometimes with imprisonment - others would have taken their lives because of that shame. Of course without serious reasearch into the matter, the author is far to young to grasp those subtleties and include them in forming his opinions. Beyond explaining the behaviour he finds so objectionable he doesn't ask why that behaviour or those gay villages might exist.
This would have been a far more interesting article had he done that as it is it simply says what could have been stated in a simple paragraph - eg I really don't like mainstream gay culture and don't like people inhabiting stereotypical roles.
Is it really interesting to describe why you don't particularly like another group of people beyond the difficultly YOU have with their difference? In my opinion, not really - we are, at the end of the day all ultimately a minority of one.
Does the author know anything about the difference that exists within the gay scenes he describes? He doesn't tell us of any serious research he has done - nothing along the lines of "I spent 6 months trying to understand that world and the people in it" - No there is no curiosity here just it seems out of hand condemnation, which is all the worse for being justified along the lines of 'you deserve it', which is a dangerous road to go down.
I note the article was written serveral years ago - hopefully the author has grown up a bit and become a little more secure in himself and mature in his thought processes and analysis. I hope so - I would really like to see a proper treatment of this subject with a little more objectivity but still with room for him to express his view of this subject. For instance it would be wonderful to have a concise by rounded analysis with a bit of historical context, containing a little serious and open minded research and it would be really wonderful to see his journey through that. I would really be interested to read a generalised, condemnative rant on the mainstream gay scene but to find out just why he doesn't like it, what is it in him that this pushes so many buttons and to see a journey through researching this topic and challenging his own opinions to see where that led. Now that really would be interested and could be treated like a proper blog.
As for me, well I don't particularly like the mainstream scene either but not because the people piss me off, it's just not particularly my thing - rather like some types of music don't do it for me. If anything, the scene is a little too predictable and I like variety but then there are always exceptions to the rule...
What a hugely pretentious and condescending comment. If the author cared whatsoever about those things you have so graciously deigned to enlighten him with then he'd be writing encyclopedia articles rather than selfish blogs about his own mere "personal" opinions. Serious analysis?? Give me a break. From a fellow gay, I agree wholeheartedly - most gay culture is terrible.
thank you. will you marry me?
Thanks so much for writing this article! I can finally breathe! I also loathe the gay scene and the people in it. In fact, because of this, I don't label myself as "gay" anymore; I just say to people that I'm "not straight", because I don't want to be associated with putting out, drag queens and the goddamn annoying lisp. And as sad as it may sound, I can understand why so many people are against gay rights; they don't view us as regular men because we act like slutty women.
Hopefully though, once the gay community stops acting like the whiny little brat it is, GLBT people will realize that if they stop acting that way, then maybe hate crimes will decrease, gay marriage in more places will be allowed, etc. Until then, though, the future looks bleak.
I abandoned the gay bar scene and it is the best move I ever made.
I did not know how to meet others so I was always going to the night clubs. Although I never really cared for them.
The last straw for me was when a group of men I did not know were discussing me with utter contempt. They were just sitting there verbally ripping me apart. I had never done anything to them or even said a word to them. I am a really shy person, so I guess that was equated with being a snob.
I was too uncomfortable to go back. It is the best thing that ever happened to me. I started seeking other ways to meet men, and made some quality friendships. I never could find quality friendship in the clubs. I just didn't know how to meet people without the bars.
I have met wonderful people who also shun that kind of lifestyle.
I look back now and I feel sorry for those people. I understand it is quite common for gay men to sit in a cluster at a bar and analyze the patrons. I don't understand it, but as someone pointed out, those guys are usually pretty miserable with themselves to begin with.
Events like that really would mess with me for awhile. I use to say I hated gay people, even though I am gay.
I don't really hate them, I just don't care for a particular type of gay man. And that would be the bar flies.
This is great! I'm so sick and tired of people expecting me to be someone who sleeps around because of my sexuality. Other gay people find it hard to comprehend that I actually respect my own body and mind and do not want to "do" anything that moves. People could not believe that I had not gone "all the way" at 19. They also cannot comprehend that I dislike gay bars, for the reasons you have stated.
I was feeling like one of a very small group of gay people who felt like me so it's nice to know someone else feels the same!
Superb post, I could've written myself. I fully agree with it.
The only thing that defines being a gay man, is predominantly fancying other men. That's it.
You don't have to adore Kylie, go the gym, read Attitude and go cruising blah-blah to be gay.
The irony is many gay men bang on about prejudice from straights. Yet those very same gays will look down on those who don't conform to the stereotypes or the gay groupthink... get out the glasshouse before throwing stones guys!
"The gay community" is the exemplification of this. As if all gay people are some ovine sub-species who all speak with one voice, or some weird cult who live in a bubble from the rest of society.
Or "gay pride". Gay lobbyists supposedly hate stereotyping, yet encourage pride-- which showcases every stereotype going. Duh. And it also further fosters that apartheid sub-species attitude. Whilst gay is nothing to be ashamed of, is it something to be proud of?
I have pride in my achievements. I don't achieve being gay, anymore than I achieve having blue eyes or size 12 feet. My sexuality is part of who I am.
Then there's "the gay lifestyle". Which is what exactly? Again it assumes that because you're gay, you must act in a certain way. There's only one lifestyle, and that's one's own!
Or the assumption that you have to think in terms of everything through the prism of your sexuality.
My theory is that many gay men don't meet any other gay men until they go on the Scene. Of course the Scene is defined by its sexuality: Therefore they get the impression that the Scene=gay.
I think it's also people replacing their lack of confidence/personality with their sexuality. So rather than being an idividual, they become a label (perhaps explains this mindless groupthink)
Thankfully there are men out there like you (and some good eggs in the comments section), who see themselves as being people who just happen to be gay.
Bar a few bigots (both straight or gay); if you can look beyond your sexuality and see yourself as an individual (and not a label)-- then others will do the same.
I think that's the reason there is so much prejudice in the world, because so many people are hung up on labelling people-- divide and rule-- rather than seeing people as individual and equal human beings.
Perhaps if these scene queens stopped defining themselves by their sexuality, dropped 'the gay community' bollocks, thought for themselves and have some character beyond "I'm special because I'm gay, err that's it"-- then there may be some bloody hope for us all.
Labels are for clothes not people!
Superb post, I could've written myself. I fully agree with it.
The only thing that defines being a gay man, is predominantly fancying other men. That's it.
The irony is many gay men bang on about prejudice from straights. Yet those very same gays will look down on those who don't conform to the stereotypes or the gay groupthink... get out the glasshouse before throwing stones guys!
"The gay community" is the exemplification of this. As if all gay people are some ovine sub-species who all speak with one voice, or some weird cult who live in a bubble from the rest of society.
Or "gay pride". Gay lobbyists supposedly hate stereotyping, yet encourage pride-- which showcases every stereotype going. Duh. And it also further fosters that apartheid sub-species attitude.
Then there's "the gay lifestyle". Which is what exactly? Again it assumes that because you're gay, you must act in a certain way. There's only one lifestyle, and that's one's own!
Or the assumption that you have to think in terms of everything through the prism of your sexuality.
My theory is that many gay men don't meet any other gay men until they go on the Scene. Of course the Scene is defined by its sexuality: Therefore they get the impression that the Scene=gay.
I think it's also people replacing their lack of confidence/personality with their sexuality. So rather than being an idividual, they become a label (perhaps explains this mindless groupthink)
Thankfully there are men out there like you (and some good eggs in the comments section), who see themselves as being people who just happen to be gay.
Bar a few bigots (both straight or gay); if you can look beyond your sexuality and see yourself as an individual (and not a label)-- then others will do the same.
I think that's the reason there is so much prejudice in the world, because so many people are hung up on labelling people-- divide and rule-- rather than seeing people as individual and equal human beings.
Perhaps if these scene queens stopped defining themselves by their sexuality, dropped 'the gay community' bollocks, thought for themselves and have some character beyond "I'm special because I'm gay, err that's it"-- then there may be some bloody hope for us all.
Labels are for clothes not people!
I hate this expectation that when you come out and reach 18 you have to plunge yourself into gay culture and sleep with everyone and anyone who gives you a second look. I've never understood the whole attitude of some people that because you're gay you have to let everyone know that fact and rub it in their face.
Having only really experienced the mainstream gay scene for less than a year, as I am only 18, it has really turned me off. I want a relationship, not a one night stand, I never have or will be that guy but everyone else my age seems to be. They put on their foundation and eyeliner and turn into these androgynous or extremly feminine things, I'm sorry I'm a guy that likes guys, if I wanted to date a girl I would have been straight.
I read this entire article and it dawned on me for once I am not alone in feeling this. I had even assumed I was just going through a sexual phase; that's how much I abhored being roped in with gay culture. I figured, "wait... so if you're gay you're supposed to be like this? Huh, I guess I might not be gay."
I honestly think main-stream media is pushing this stereotype as part of the package. If you're gay you're suddenly this effeminate, sex maniac, who only cares about shopping, sex talk, and horrid musicals.
What's more, young men who are only just coming out of the closet or realizing they are gay are being thrust into this "culture" and undoubtedly becoming horribly confused. I know I was (I'm 20).
But thank you for writing this article. Now I can just link this to people when they don't realize that not all gays are are some disgusting stereotype.
I agree with both the anon posters above, bang on correct
It's sad to think that if you're gay these days, if you have to define yourself by sexuality {i}, and becoming a rainbow-flag-waving zealot.
{i} Or being "proud", as they say. I'm neither proud or ashamed of my sexuality. Personally I'm proud about my achievements; not what I am naturally, in the same I'm not proud about having Size 12 feet, blue eyes or being 6'2".
PS: Being gay is about being predominantly sexually attracted to other men-- nothing else :-)
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m8 your comming over like you hate yourself,why do you hate it so much,lighten up mr,yeah the mainsreem gay scene is sometimes very boreing but there is alternative gay scenes ..whitch are real fun full of nice intresting gay alternative people,ie duckie in vauxhall its real fun ..why not go..if you lived rural as i do you would be begging for the mainstreem gay scene,lol..as there would be nothing for you
Or you have the choice of not doing the scene at all.
Just because you dislike the gay scene, doesn't mean you are self-hating. Where in what the author writes does it suggest he hates himself? His dislike is of the 'scene', as he has experienced it.
Being gay means being (predominantly) attracted to people of the same gender. That's it. Whether you (dis)like yourself for having that trait, is irrelevant to whether you go to any gay venues.
Conversely if you're gay, you don't have to do the scene.
Indeed homosexuality will only become accepted as a normal and perfectly uninteresting aspect of everyday life (and the bigots will whither on the vine); when gay people themselves feel less pressured into ovinely thinking of their sexuality as a life-defining, political battle-- and more as something that doesn't consciously define them at all.
I hear you! I'm a 41 year old gay man and haven't been to a gay club or bar in years and don't intend to go back. I don't drink and have no interest.I live near New York City and haven't attended the gay pride parade since 2002.Don't intend to view another one of those again ever.It's just too crowded and every type of gay stereotype is there. I just can't stand the gay stereotype as similar as the "Just Jack" character on "Will and Grace". Eewww! I'm an average blue collar man who appreciates other hard working blue collar men, you see.I would rather prefer, if nothing planned on a Saturday night, just watching tv or reading a novel with a few cups of tea, and just a good jack off to boot. Well take care all of you who have read this.
So glad that there seems to actually be a few people left in this world that arnt just interested in 'putting it about'. You can't even go to a club without a guy inviting you back, who hasn't even had the decency to say 'hi, what's your name?'. I'm sick of going out and being looked at like a piece of meat, and then because I actually want to find someone decent who hasn't slept about I'm 'fussy' or a 'snob', er no mate, I just have a bit more respect and don't want someone who's slept with every gay person I see.
"Gay culture"? That would assume that such a thing really exists?
I see being gay as just (predominantly) sexually attracted to those of the same gender. That's it.
Being gay does mean you have to worship Lady Gaga, wear Aussiebum and A&F, go to gay bars, holiday in Grand Canaria and so on.
"Gay liefstyle"? There are as many gay lifestyles, as there are gay people. Life's too short to be a shhep.
I had a friend tell me she hates gay guys, not because of some religious reason, but because "99 percent of gay men I meet are such assholes."
I'm bisexual and agree. The very fact my sexuality isn't accepted as valid along with being gay or straight and yet gay guys scream "accept us" is one thing unto itself entirely.
Wow, thanks for writing this - both the article and comments were interested to read, and unfortunately very true and the sad reality of it all.
Hi,
Thank you for this article... As many others I was also starting to think I was the only one making this judgment. I however think that a lot of the behaviours we don't stand in certain type of homosexual are related to maturity.
The straight bars as well as the gay ones have their drawbacks. I guess by the time a group of human regroup themselves and exhibit the pattern of a subculture their will always be a dark side coming along with it. ( The first victims are those who don't conform to the norm)
I would also add that the obsession gay people have with their sexuality nowadays might also come from the
fact that they we have been repressed to express their true nature for so long. The freedom of being gay is very recent (in the western world).
And still I don't see many guys kissing each other or holding hand in the street (in london). They are several explanation to explain those behaviours. Don't worry there is also a straight culture but we don't pay attention to it because there never was an alternative to it.And it also has it pitfalls.
I just want to say I COMPLETELY agree with the author. When I was about... eh we will say 16ish I came out as a lesbian to my mother. She made me go to Pride with her lesbian coworkers (that bit in of itself is another story); but I was largely appalled by what I saw. Up to that point I had never seen so much public nudity and simulated (poss real) sex. I was turned off by the whole experience. I'll never forget the men handing my packets of lube. I was shocked at that, seeing as I was an obvious minor.
Even well before this experience I was never one for a big party. So I think that has a lot to do with why I initially never wanted anything to do with the scene. There was some pressure to conform to it when I was in school and I had a couple of gay friends. But I never fell into it, I always favored more intellectual pursuits than getting high or drunk.
One of the things that I find very frustrating about the gay community is that they try to pass off this behavior as the gay 'culture'. As if that makes simulated sex acts in the street okay. I'd like to point out that it is NOT our culture. We do NOT all come from some tribe or country where this behavior is acceptable. It's not like its a native cultural dance parade. The truth seems to be that the gay 'community' has become very good at hiding behind civil rights lawyers. It's interesting that they don't get arrested in mass when dancing about half naked with dildo's in hand (yes I've seen this with my own eyes); and yet anyone else does it and they'll get hauled off for lued acts, indecent exposer and so on and so forth.
The gay community will never be taken seriously politically as simply people who want and deserve equal rights until the fringe gets down off the floats and steps aside so the adults can handle business.
Today I'm happily in a long-term relationship with my partner. We have other gay and lesbian friends who are also in committed relationships. Not a single one of us met each other or our significant others in a gay club, pride, or anything that has anything to do with the gay 'community'.
There's no need to keep screaming or chanting.
They know we are here.
They already know we are queer.
They are used to it.
Anyway I'm done with my rant. Again thanks for the post.
Thanks for your post. It gave me hope that I'm not the only person out there. I really wish I was straight.
What is the "gay culture" this blogger speaks of? It sounds like he had a moment if discontent in soho with some guys he sees as some how being worth less than he is. I agree there are some people in the "gay community", whatever that is, who are a little extreme for my taste but I don't "hate" them. Hate is such an ugly word.
" My problem is that "these people" seem to have their entire lives revolve only around their sexuality. They are gay. So that means they only go to gay clubs, only have gay friends, only read gay magazines, only buy camp music, only check out gay websites, only go to gay gyms etc."
Soooo... How much time did the author of this spend talking to "these people"? It is a very broad brush he is painting with here. It has been my experience that the type of person the author is referring to is very rare or perhaps non existent. With out spending a great deal of time with "these people" it would be virtually impossible to know their gym habits, the sexual orientation of their friends, or their web browsing history. I have never met a gay person that only has gay friends.
Don't get me wrong. The campy lifestyle is not something I could live all the time. But I love a bit of camp every so often. I think back to a dear friend who is no longer with us. He was as campy and bitch as they come. But laying in the hospital dying he had the same fears and concerns as I would. I miss him horribly.
If you swapped out the word gay for black or Jewish people would be outraged by this rant. Why is it ok to dump all over a group of people who the author knows almost nothing about because they are gay? True, the author is gay but even in the author was Jewish or black there would be a tone of self loathing.
It is a slippery sloop to think of ones self as better than "these people". The authors ability to discount people he finds undesirable is a bit selfish and smacks of insecurity and ignorance. Yes... Some gay men are a bit more open when it comes to sex. Sone straight men would be to if women didn't form a sort of evolutionary barrier. Yes some gay men are found of all things camp...but I don't value my life style more than them.
After hundreds of year of being murdered, tortured, excluded and spat upon you would think the author would be a little more forgiving and inclusive. The battle for inclusiveness is just beginning. Even out great neighbor to the south has a large part of their population without the same rights as their straight friends.
One final thought....
To the fine author of this vile rant...
You owe a hell of a lot to the bitchy, the campy, an the drag queens, in other words... "these people.". Young man, brush up on your history. The stonewall riots in 1969 set off a chain of events that led to the freedom from police persecution and most of the freedoms gay people in the west now enjoy. The authors own government persecuted Alan Turing horribly because he was a homosexual. The uk imprisoned, tortured and demeaned Alan to the point he took his own life. With out Mr. Turing the uk might have become part of Germany in the 40s. This freedom to just "fuck men" as you so eloquently put it came from the blood, the sweat, and the tears of all the people before you... A lot of them were the type of person you riled against. The people who define them selfs by their sexuality are usually the first to stand up and take action. This gives the rest of us the freedom to live out lives how we choose free from judgment. Well, almost free... There is still a lot of self loathing.
Young man, Grow up. Show some respect. If you don't like it don't go to that part of soho, after all London is a huge city. Don't flip threw "Boyz" magazine. Stay safe and superior someplace else.
A nice Canadian guy, you are incredibly mistaken. The author is not saying that guys who love gay culture are bad people nor judging how worthy they are are as people. All he is saying is that he does not like being grouped in with them when he tells people that he is gay. Camp is not for everyone, and I can tell you as a more masculine gay guy, I am offended at society's interpretation of ALL gay men as being campy and effeminate. You are mistaking his very real and very valid points of being lumped in with a way of life he does not like nor partake in as being bigoted. And that is not the case at all!
Thank God I found this blog. As a gay 18 year old I often find myself being dragged along to gay clubs and bars, which utterly and overwhelmingly make me feel depressed and hopeless. Like many of the posters on here, I was doubting whether anyone shared the same views as me.
My question is if there are alternatives to clubs and bars for gay people to meet, what are they? Where are they? The thought of standing in a sweaty, drunken crowd again whilst dreadful music deafens us all makes me sick. I need to know that there are some places that a gay person can go for conversation and company. How can I find out about these?
As to the argument that outwardly gay men have contributed to many of the freedoms we have today, this is ridiculous. The day we are free is the day 'gay' isn't used in popular language to mean pathetic, when a gay person yearning for company shouldn't have to go to special 'communities' and when a gay marriage isn't named a massively insulting 'civil partnership'. We are far from liberated, and whether someone is effeminate or not has nothing to do with whether they try to make a difference.
I think you are taking it all too personally. Where are your internal barriers? Live and let live. Some people do this, some do that. I used to get the stereotypical thing thrown at me a lot, but back then I had personality problems and being stereotypical gave me one, or so I thought. Then I found me, and all the stereotypical things I used to do/wear now make me cringe. I guess back then I was also horny as hell and needed lots of sex, whereas now I go for quality not quantity or I leave it. I think the article is too aggressively written but it is interesting as it made me think where I was in relation to it. I think everyone's journey is different. I never feel comfortable on the gay scene any more as I feel I am expected to act/be a certain way which is no longer me. There is much more interesting stuff to be done. I used to love going drinking and dancing in clubs, for example, whereas now I am more or less tee-total and go to dance classes instead. But I don't begrudge or judge others doing what they want and I don't feel that what they do impacts on me, nor do I care what other people think about me, them, etc. I think the amount of sex gay men have with each other is pretty easy to understand. If your want sex, it is always there, and people come together for it, so it's like a club of like-minded people. How long you stay in the club depends on you. I also think sex is a throwaway commodity on the gay scene. I choose to see it as non-throwaway now and it is much better that way. But as I say, I think that now.
I agree about not judging people and being laissez-faire
And I think Miles *is* taking a live-and-let live attitude to others, and isn't judging anyone.
I think he's merely expressing an opinion, his experiences, of the gay scene-- and it how it was for him (dare I say with a touch of satirical humour?)
It's those on the scene, and those who promote it, that I find judgemental and overbearing. They deem to be properly gay, you have to like X music, read Y magazines and go to Z on holiday; plus behave in certain ways, beyond sexual attraction to the same gender.
Just because Miles doesn't find the scene to his liking, doesn't mean to say he's judging it or is resentful to towards it and its frequenters.
wow that was really an eyeopener ... a gay guy who can't stand gay people. wow what a wonderful way to live.
why don't you just become a monk.
In the US, Being a homosexual myself, I find myself figuring out why do i have to become a gay stereotype; to become accepted into the gay culture and gay peers. Only 22 years old and been out for 2 years, it is becoming more and more complicated figuring out who I am as a gay person. I am in the gay scene, but I can't stand people who are fake and just plain rude to other people. I try to not be part of the stereotype, but sometimes i find myself being part of the stereotype. I find myself only attracted to hot, bodybuilder type guys, sometimes about sex, talk about sex and dick in public,, which i wouldn't do because I find it inappropriate. The person I was 2 year ago would never associate with the person I am today. I am confused who I am as a person. I try to become an individual but find it easier to become as part of the gay stereotype and being accepted
what a load of tosh, you can enjoy the gay scene or other gay guys, you make your own bed to lay in. If you share your own standards such as repecting others with your friends then issues are unlikly to be raised. If the gay scene is not for you, cool dont go, but dont try to be on higher moral ground. Sex is available, fine if you understand respecting others! i.e they have a partner or too drunk. Ive met knob heads both st8 and gay, thats life! They are out there get used to it. Someone can be annoying for many reasons,x
Just because Miles is distasteful of the gay scene, doesn't mean he dislikes gay people.
He doesn't have to become a monk either; there are plenty of gay men who don't do the scene, and socialise off it. Outdoor Lads an example.
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I completed agree with the author... the gay culture scene should move on. Why am I expected to act a certain way because of my sexuality? I haven't been to a gay club in years, and do not feel like I am missing out. All the judgemental eyes, and the bitchy looks. I am more happy going out with my friends, who are what sexuality they want to be, and just having a great time. If anything happens... thats great.
I'm comfortable with myself. I work hard, i am intelligent, and my life is full of joy and happiness.
I live with a gay housemate; are 'sexual' lives are poplar opposites though. He does the club scene, grindr, watches a lot of porn, and has random sex. I go to pubs with my mates, stay of dating/sex sites, and when I do have sex... it's pretty damn good. This is because I have sex for the emotional and physical connection. He and i get on very well, and we respect that we have different views on gay life. Because we have different lives... that's it.
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These days one is villainised if one doesn't jump on the gay band wagon, and by stating an opinion against gay marriage. Why? I simply don't like the idea of two men marrying, and I have the right to speak my mind. I am a traditionalist and that should be OK too. FREEDOM OF SPEECH
To be honest I spent some of my formative gay years in sex on premises venues as it suited me cuz at the time I had my family stay with me most weekends so it was convenient to just visit a sex club. I did meet some nice guys there but also saw some horrors that will never leave me. Also to be honest I've had nothing but bad experiences with gay men that I've let into my life. I've been abused, ridiculed and humiliated so many times by gay guys that just seem to thrive on making someone else's life a misery. In every single instance I helped them.
So bad did it get that I resorted to slashing my body with a knife and attempted suicide three times. My family have suffered right along with me. My own daughter even cried herself to sleep at the thought of how her father had been treated. I tried a relationship not long ago and once again, as is so predictable, he mistreated me. I didn't want it like that and I tried to make things better but it just went on and its now over. Over also is my gay life...I've had enough. I feel now that it is much better to live as an ex gay man than subject myself to the relentless abuse that seems to be the ONLY thing a gay man can deliver.
Good luck to you all.
I know of quite a few gay men who have either left gay life altogether (ie become celibate) or have converted to a St8 life. Contrary to popular belief not all conversion pathways lead to suicide and as i say I know of many gay men who are now so much happier in str8 relationships because quite simply they are better. Now if you think I'm overstating things then let me draw you to research on gay relationships that have actually been conducted by gay advocacy groups. Their findings are shameful to the gay culture (remember this is research by gay ADVOCATE groups). Less than 5% of gay relationships will be monogamous after 5 years and less than 7% of gay relationships will be together at all after 7 years. Rates of abuse are unacceptably high as is the rate of HIV infection. Rates of suicide are also very high (which, by the way, I believe has nothing to do with acceptance by the wider community...in my country gays are celebrated...no suicide comes from the sheer abuse that characterises gay relations). So surely, this tells us something yet we ignore it. I no longer live as a gay man...I've never experienced in all my life such incredible abuse and ridicule. I've also never in my life came into contact with beastiality and pedoephelia until I lived a gay life. I was very much a million miles away from that stuff when i lived as a st8 man...only in my gay life have i come across that stuff. It's also one of the reasons I left gay life.
As for effeminate gays or whatever I couldn't care less. I had no problem in the gay community whether someone was effeminate, or a scene guy, or a leather man or a cross dresser or transgender or whether liked lots of sex, held orgies or any of that stuff. I'm quite open minded. My primary reason for leaving gay life is the amount of abuse...in my 13 years as a gay man it's not their sexuality that so much defines the gay man it's abuse that defines them as some ridiculous version of masculinity. I can't believe how much I've done for the gay men that have come into my life...fed them, clothed them, be there for when they down, visited them in hospital, lent money, gave them lifts here there and everywhere...my last and final partner told me I saved his life yet he refused not to abuse me even when I asked him not to...go figure. My own daughter cried herself to sleep at age 25 cuz of the way her dad has been treated...broke my heart forever and yet another reason why I will never live the life of a gay man. I know so many horror stories it's unbelievable...if only the wider community knew what really goes on. I met a gay man with Motor Neurone disease and he cried for three hours in my car at the ridicule and humiliation he's received from gays...fucking shameful and disgusting.
My excitement at finally coming out as a gay man has now been completely eradicated and i will, as I am now, help the many gay guys who want to leave that life forever.
Im a 43 yr old gay man.I haven't been on the scene in 5yrs. I went to a cruising area for 8yrs but now im sick of that too.I date on the net.Squirt.org is better than Grindr.Check it out!
I've read this post a few times, and each time it has resonated with me and helped me to reflect more on the ways in which I'm completely disgusted not just with gay "culture" or the gay "scene" but with men who identify as gay in general. But it was not until today that I read through all the comments and faced the shock of recognition when I got to the comment posted on October 27, 2013.
I have a slight neurological disability, and let me tell you, the rejection, hatred, and sheer abuse I've faced from gay men as a result of my disability has been exponentially worse than any homophobia I've encountered from straight people. Dating gay men was pretty much a non-starter, even though I was open to a wide range of guys and really just wanted to get to know someone with a decent personality who could carry a conversation. (I know, that qualification in itself narrowed the dating pool to 0.01% of gay men.) Sex was pretty much confined to dark backrooms, bathhouses, and such, with no emotional connection whatsoever. After 20 years of this garbage, I finally gave up, renounced being gay, and became celibate. In doing so, I found that things truly did "get better," to borrow the banal gay pep-talk slogan. I had never before felt such a weight lifted from my shoulders, even including the time when I initially came out as gay to my parents. I began to explore all my intellectual interests again. I started to travel everywhere. I poured myself into my career. Best of all, I started to socialize exclusively with straight people, and I've developed a few deep friendships with them. I thought I'd always harbor a regret in the back of my mind at never having found happiness in a gay lifestyle, but quite the opposite has been true: I no longer have any interest in being "gay" or seeking the companionship of gay men. In fact, I began to realize that my failure to find a satisfying relationship or even a true friendship with another gay man was not my fault--it's just that gay men seem stuck in perpetual adolescence. Maybe there are adult-minded gay men out there, but if so, they're all in hiding, or they've all done like I've done and have ceased being "gay".
This has been on my mind for far too long, and am so happy to have stumbled across your post. It really is a lonely world when all you have around yourself are terrible examples of who you "identify," with.
Knowing I'm not alone has truly lifted a ton of weight off my shoulders. I can keep on keeping on, as I always have. Peace of mind is everything.
Gay people dont identify their sexuality at an early age and they start a relationship wirh an opposite sex.Later they realise their orientation and sadly they break up with'the existing relationship .They just say it is not their fault but they are destined to be that way
It is unfair to the person who has true love'for him or her.
There'are a lot'of such instances in society.
Gay people dont identify their sexuality at an early age and they start a relationship wirh an opposite sex.Later they realise their orientation and sadly they break up with'the existing relationship .They just say it is not their fault but they are destined to be that way
It is unfair to the person who has true love'for him or her.
There'are a lot'of such instances in society.
Try being a bi conservative. They will eat you alive.
I'm attracted to both, yet can't find a decent person to date. Let alone anything else.
I'm not religious, but I'm 'saving' myself for that special someone. What for I've got no idea at this point, 'cause by the time someone is in their mid to late 20s, they've already had 5+ partners, and I don't want to deal with that kind of baggage.
Being closeted really helps some people, because they don't get indoctrinated into this lifestyle when they are young and stupid.
I completely agree with you. Even when I was growing into myself, I never associated myself with 'the gay lifestyle'. I suppose somewhere deep down I knew that it was a very destructive lifestyle, similarly to the 'black culture' that white liberals love to glamourise.
There is nothing healthy about it.
And this isn't just the critique of the gay culture, straight people aren't far from it now. I'm a student and most are obsessed with sex. Parties=sex and drinking. How in the world would you find a decent guy or girl to settle down with?
Impossible.
At this point I'd rather be alone.
But if anyone feels optimistic, look for gay/bi people who identify on the conservative scale (or libertarian). I feel like there is a ton of difference between gay liberals and gay conservatives.
We do exist, guys.
As a 60 year old who has lived in New York City and in the metro area of North Jersey back in the late 70's and 80's when the gay community was just starting to take off. I can sympathize with you on some issues. I am one of the survivors who made it through the 80's when having sex with a stranger was like russian roulette. I was young and naïve in the beginning but wised up, took some years. I didn't truly have a good set of gay friends until I reached my late 30's. I call that my second wind of gay life. Those friends I had turned out to be the last attempt at being accepted as a gay man. Unfortunately I was humiliated and abused many times by these so called gay friends. They were four couples who were very successful in their business. Some of them had been together as far as 15 to 20 years, that was a positive role model for me but that's where it ends. They were the most narcissistic group of guys I had ever met, I'm not sure why I stayed around so long but I was enjoying my time traveling with them, plus I was the single guy having fun. They seemed to enjoy taking out their frustrations out on me. I let this go on for number of years until I developed a relationship with another man which they did not approve of. That was my walking papers. To this day I have regrets of ever getting involved with them. They had so many prejudices towards other people and also class prejudices, gays with big money can be worst. I have no bad feelings to other gay men and women, I know there's some great honest gay people out there. I have also seen many negative things in the gay world, from Fire Island to the West Village in NYC, I have seen it all. Good luck to you my friend, I hope you meet the person of your dreams.
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